How would you see it if it was reneging an internship for a FT offer? The hiring process consisted of 3 interviews and then a super days that was about 4 hours long and 5 interviews, pretty standard there. If you have this many questions about it, youre probably going to sound very nervous on the phone, so youre better off just emailing them. Win. See you on the other side! What are your thoughts on this situation? One would expect Bank B to get mad at me for listing negative aspects of the job, but it was Bank A that was the most upset. Comparing two identical buildings, how would you value them? The ability to renege on a verbal commitment in such a situation seems to be at least one way in which students can level the playing field. 3 phone screens and a superday of 7 interviews consisting of mostly behavioral and one technical interview of a case study. Makes sense. Thanks for the informative post. Case study of an office building in New York and how you value that and the debt leverage. first. I apologized later for the demanding email. Hey Brian, I think I will most likely be reneging on a Corporate Banking Internship offer in SF/Chi/Houston for an IB Internship. Thank you! I was reading this, and I think its very well written. I have to add, that I accepted the offer from the corporation and I am thinking about switching to BB. Its not the end of the world if you do a summer internship elsewhere, but I would only do it if its a major jump in recognition / quality of work or such. So rejecting is acceptable, whereas reneging can get you into trouble. We have meditation and story time! I aspire to be within CB/IB for FT at a BB. Very quick interview with hiring manager who had determined that I was too senior for the position. Hey Brian, saw you answered similar questions but thought Id ask the entirety of my situation to get your take. Apollo is looking to double assets in five years, and it will need more people - as well as additional funds from investors - to get there. Do we think Apollo will ever take ex-consultants? I give it a 50-50 combined chance of getting an offer from one of the other five places, all of which I would much prefer. Try working harder next time. 1. Would you say the potential downside is serious? Appreciate you taking the time to respond! I think you're all missing the point that Apollo is HIRING in general and is expecting to GROW. Plz note that on the signed letter it said that the offer can be terminated by either party. Are my chances for a Summer Analyst role for next summer the same in both situations? So maybe let the second bank know what youre doing first and then write a brief email to the first bank saying that you have decided to decline the offer because you won something in your desired location in NY. Same great fucking you at all hours, now with free caffeineTM. Contribute to the database and get 1 month free* Full online access! If you really want to work for the BB, Id still suggest you to go on the superday and see how it goes. An EB vs. Citi/BAML probably wont make a massive difference in exit opportunities, but it could deliver other benefits (more independence/interesting work). How should I handle the situation? What are your thoughts on reneging on a BB middle office position for a MM/boutique front office role? All Rights Reserved. Or what if they dont give me an offer? Im pretty sure they would tell my career center if I reneged. Im having a hard time choosing between these two. Im not sure S&T is where I want to be long term as I see it as a shrinking industry (Im in my late 20s and come from an operational background). Reneging would be more useful if you want to move into a more generalist industry after a year or so in natural resources. The above is what Id say. About Apollo Apollo is a leading global investment manager with offices in New York, Los Angeles, San Diego, Houston, Bethesda, London, Frankfurt, Madrid, Luxembourg, Mumbai, Delhi, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Tokyo, among others. But, to be honest, turnover in IB is currently even higher than usual, so I dont think anyone will care. Thank you for your advice! Fair/unfair its your judgement call. Which is especially bad news if youre reneging on a summer internship offer and taking another one. I wanted both degrees to make me marketable in the finance/consulting industry because I knew I didnt want to stay in public accounting for long. The positions are completely unrelated to the Midwest internship. How should I go to renege that offer? Is it worth it to attend the super day? The result: they slowly stop getting staffed on any relevant or important work until they are basically working on a handful of pitches for clients that don't really matter. Thanks. How are you so sure they will? Is it worth if to renege? I am a sophomore at a non-target school, and I have accepted an offer for a internship/leadership development program with a mid-tier public accounting firm about a month ago, but I now have the opportunity to interview with a mid-tier REPE firm for a summer analyst program. It depends a bit on your previous work experience. Ive been interning at a regional boutique for about 7 months, and they extended me an SA offer that exploded before OCR, so I took it. Given that its Friday evening I was planning on emailing the recruiter Monday requesting a call ASAP. Can I still continue applying and interviewing for BB banks while in school, and should I tell them up front that I already took an offer elsewhere? Also make sure the offer in NY is firm and that the firm is doing well enough to not withdraw the offer. Will declining an offer for a summer internship make it (way) harder to get a FT offer for the following year in that company? You can, but in Australia it may not be the best idea since the finance industry is even smaller and everyone really does know everyone else. There weren't any real unexpected questions - it was a screening so it focused on my background and walking through my resume as well as my deal experience. How would you see it if the MDs of both companies know each other very well (worked together)? Id choose CB too if I prefer it to Accounting. However, it does not hurt to speak with the MM IB and see how it goes. Is this simply too niche a team to warrant its own article? Have you ever heard about something like this happening and was I treated fairly? I would renege because an MM firm to JPM is a pretty big leap, even if you come in as a Junior Analyst rather than a true 1st year. Friday the bank offers me and is my dream job and is finance, now what do i do? Sure when PE was all financial engineering public companies, that's probably fine, but now with how operationaly intensive alot of investments are and the amount of back channeling going on to do deals/auctions - having the same mold for all of your investment team probably doesn't make the most sense. Thanks. Not all clients are dumb. After accepting, a position in IB for a MM became available and I have applied with a very strong referral. Also while there is a diversity problem in PE, it's definitely alot more meritocratic/better than fortune 500s on a race basis for senior leadership. I think a career in IB may be more suited for me but would you recommend to renege from an internship 2 weeks before the start date for a FT role in IB? Do you think the bridges burnt with HR will be very crucial down the line? Does signing a contract mean anything in that part of the world? Voluptate et ut adipisci dolor. Just to follow up on this I realized that my career center guidelines state that recruiters interviewing in the fall must give students until December to respond to an offer; however, I was only given a week (this was in October). Theres no reason to tell your school or to tell all your friends this is not something you want to openly advertise. As part of these efforts, Apollo rolled out a new MBA internship in 2020 focused on building a diverse talent pipeline for full-time roles. Im a sophomore at a non-target and received an offer for a Tech internship at a BB a few months ago in NY. Hi Brian. What actions should I take in this case? Guys at the top of my class were either absolute geniuses who could ace a calc or physics exam without spending a second in class or middle-of-the-road types who out in a little bit of effort into school but still mostly played sports and partied. I would probably just tell the BB that you accepted the MM offer a long time ago, and youre willing to renege on it to accept an offer at the BB, but you want to make sure theyre fine with that first. FYI, my desired exit opportunities for RX is private credit/debt and distressed private equity. As a junior, got an offer at a top 10 IB for summer analyst internship. However, today I got a full-time offer from a local boutique. Also, would you recommend calling HR and tell them youd like to renege, or would it be better to inform them through email (and risk the email being forwarded to other banks)? Yes, Id say so. Is reneging the same as rejecting? However, if you can deal with the consequences of reneging, you can choose B. Should I renege? Plan out a few sentences for what youll say, then make the call and let it be over. Itaque magni magnam minus odio vitae harum doloribus aut. Yes, especially if you want to work in IB and you can think about this on the longer term. Thanks for your insight I have been thinking about it and Im still unsure about my future career path. One is summer analyst and one is off-cycle. I accepted a junior summer internship in public accounting but during the semester became very interested in corporate banking. If you want to stay in energy long term, Id say the upside isnt that great. Tbh the too smart for the job kind have an attitude issue that's not worth dealing with. Im a non-target junior who managed to make it to a few Superdays but ending up not getting an offer at my top BB choice. I was thinking of reneging the mid-office offer. But company B dont know that I signed A, should I just tell headhunter B I signed A but prefer company B to see if they will support the decision. I quite enjoyed it. Share. I would never renege on a BB offer for another BB offer. Great read! Would you recommend rejecting the offer, or accepting and then reneging? No I dont understand your question. As a woman in the private equity industry, it's quite simply not true that women who are being hired are of lower calibre. My goal is UMM/MF PE would the move make a big difference? You got 30 first round interviews, made it to 5 Superdays, and came away with an offer at a middle-market bank - which you quickly accepted. I understand that its not a good look when interviewing and you say that you accepted somewhere already else but I would think that Bankers would get pissed if they extend me an offer and I respond by saying I would like to accept but I would have to renege on another bank. How should I explain the circumstances: that I got another offer and I would regret it very much if I dont take it? 2005-2023 Wall Street Oasis. Try to figure out a way to renege your offer gracefully, and be prepared to accept the consequences. Yes theres a chance the US BB may contact the HK BB re. Id try your best to extend your deadline by a few more days with the first BB, and Id also let the other BB know of your offer and see if they can expedite your offer (if they were to extend you one.) Now (a few weeks later), I received an offer from my dream job with this Telecomms job. In this case, is it worthy to renege? Try to do so in a graceful manner and yes it is likely you may burn a bridge but try your best to minimize the damage, Ive been recruiting for FT. Up until recently I had no offers. I would not renege in this case. 2. decline straightaway. Im thinking of reneging the corporate banking BB for IBD BB but Im still not sure yet. Also, I think I will like my work better there since I will be doing M&A but at JPM is more of a coverage group that I dont really like that much(I did an internship before in that field but I did not really like it), do you think this is an issue? Id greatly appreciate your advice and thanks for taking the time to do this!! If they ask and I tell them I already took the job offer, will they dismiss my application? Apr. yours is a great point and that is what I thought..but what really made me change my mind is that after making some phone calls I realized the BNP position is not about selling proper derivatives like options or swaps, but buy side products (e.g. Reneging may burn bridges though; I dont advise it in general. A few people at school know that I received an offer, but I didnt admit to anyone that Ive accepted it. In the Apollo app, navigate to Campaigns > Analytics. Would really appreciate your advice on this! After signing I realized the situation is much more difficult than I thought, and I dont want to move to that city at all. (I am currently in an Asian city and the finance world is pretty small here). Thanks. Do you think it would be OK to renege a financial services company (think something along the lines of S&P/Reuters/Bloomberg) for a position at FO BB? Mezzanine Fund Interview. The biggest issues for females isn't breaking in, it's staying in. Its worth it. 2. Personally, I would not renege on Evercore for JPM unless youre very certain that you want to do something outside of banking/PE in the future. Or should I just stay with A and try to get into accelerated interviews for the fall with B? If I decide to make the jump, however, what are your thoughts on reneging as well as repercussions? In the short term, I think this is probably what it will look like at Apollo as well. I dont know if this makes things easier or not, in the end I still signed the offer letter. I had initially accepted an offer at a BB in Aus but now I accepted a more prestigious BB in HK. I have to add that it can be challenging to move from transaction banking into IB especially if you dont have the experience. What should I do. I really want to do more analytical stuff compared to managing relationships, so I strongly prefer the AM role. Honestly, took the advice from bankers at the MM where I accepted the offer to accept now and if something better comes up then just renege.. I would give it a shot in this case because its unlikely that the other bank would find out, and a BB would be a significant step up over one of those. There is no "talent drop". But if its something like limiting your access to on-campus recruiting in the future, that could be worth the penalty because you shouldnt really need OCR if you perform well enough in the internship and get a return offer there. Similique voluptas ut magnam dolorem neque dolor. Note gender diversity is pretty bad and I can't think of one major female led firm on the PE side (Bond for the GE side). Id still like to interview with the other banks to get a sense of where I might fit best. I also also had a superday with another bank in ny with a great group that I would rather be in, and they told me that I should sign my offer and reneg once I hear from them. Labore laboriosam sit quis quod. I need your advice. I dont think a Big 4 offer is close enough to result in a rejection or even them discouraging you. You can choose to tell B you have signed another offer with A, or you can choose not to. I was wondering if you could give me specific advice for my situation. When I started my job hunting, I applied both big 4 and IB. What do you think is the best method to go about doing so? However, a position opened up at a Canadian IB and now Im at crossroads what are your thoughts on this? At the assessment centre at BB back office bank, I was stupid enough to put the name of the other bank on their comment sheet where they asked a question if I have applied to other banks. Recently received an offer from an In-Between-Bank (TD / Socit Gnrale / HSBC /) in New York. 08. Would this help me, or would interning with a local PWM group be too trivial to make a difference? If you truly trust him/her then yes you can tell him that you signed with A. Thank you! Is reneging worth it for a junior year internship from Big 4 to BB IBD with no FT guarantee? This is subjective. Hey Brian (or anyone who may be able to help). Whats your suggestions and opinions on this case? After all they are long term investors and so are you and it's all about building a relationship, right? This is for internships by the way not FT, Hi Brian, would you renege a internship BB FO (ER, S&t) offer for a BB IB offer? If I do renege, would US BB be able to contact HK BB about this situation? The only girls at the top of my class (top 20-30 I guess?) can be an art piece, stock, gold, a small business that you know, anything. Both recruiters know the companies involved. I ended up accepting my offer back but just got an offer from another bulge bracket guaranteeing me a coverage group. And would the megafund ever tell the BB that you were interviewing? Would love to hear your advice. But I would assume its probably fine, as its difficult to verify much in the lateral process, and you cant really get in trouble with anyone if youre doing this outside of on-campus recruiting. I got this opportunity outside of my schools career services. Im currently working in a leading KPO in India. Got excited at the offer call and was asked, can we take this as a verbal committment? Yeah. When is the contract effective? If both are for BBs, I probably wouldnt renege, unless you know for sure you dont want to be in commercial banking, and that you want to work in PWM. Hello! Tough call there but I would only renege if you actually want to do equity research in the long-term. Even if you went to Princeton on the sailing team and got an an analyst offer in IBD (thanks to Daddy) you simply wouldn't survive in the PE bullpen without grit and work ethic that comes from years of busting your a$$. Ab aspernatur explicabo est voluptas quam. Accepted an early process IB offer with BAML/Barclays/Citi in a top regional city (think SF, Chicago, Houston, LA). Big4 firms I doubt, banks may actually have lists but Ive only ever heard rumors of a universal list / list-sharing. Pay is on par with the street, the Public Finance group is organized under the Investment Banking umbrella here (as a coverage group) and is growing. Say that situation has changed and you cant accept the offer (if you choose to renege). Oh and also, you're probably not getting that Associate spot anyway so stop bitching that someone else is gonna take it and start working on winning it for yourself. There is some risk, so one approach might be to skip the manager at your accounting firm and just list the internships before that. My dilemma is that I (junior) accepted an internship offer from Company A in their finance division. But, being an undergraduate from a target school, would you recommend reneging my offer and interviewing for a more front-office role? However I've seen some of these candidates who are currently interning / their experience. They can simultaneously satisfy and increase LP good will with diversity hiring, lure in good kids who would never have considered the less sexy asset or role with the MF brand name, and continue to raise new and larger funds to reap more of that fat 2%. So I am a student in Europe and signed a FT offer around 3 weeks ago with a US BB. A case study was then given and presentation was scheduled for the next morning. First I wouldnt do anything unless you already have an offer with company B. However, I now have two IBD interviews and a Commercial banking interview. Now since I am 100% sure I wont go to that place to work, should I call again or should I just write an email. Thank you. I accepted an offer from the MM bank that I interned at, but am going through an interview process with a top BB. Thanks very much! ), Accepted a FT offer at a MM earlier this month. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP! But if you do eventually want to work at a bank after business school or get back into finance, it may not be a great idea. They still need to profit afterall Yeah but now my downside case is a hellish workload and high stress but with a coffee bar, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/from-a-levfin-banker-this-is-how-an-apollo-lbo-deal-works. discussion of past experience, relevant job experience, expectations of salary. Let this be a warning to everyone else: dont publicly post about your connections. Keep it very brief and to the point youve received an exciting opportunity elsewhere and have to take it or youd be kicking yourself later. If I did IB for a summer and didnt like it but received a FT offer, and wanted to move to economic consulting, how risky would reneging be? Upside > Risk. However, after I accepted the offer a Big5 bank I applied to a couple months ago reached out to set up an interview for the same semester that my boutique internship is. My real concern is, how do I prevent the BANK from knowing this or calling him? As IBD is clearly my dream (and the pay should be more than double) and I hate accounting, I know Id wanna shoot myself later on if I dont take this opportunity. Though its probably less than with a normal offer. However, they gave me a very early deadline. Oh, and of course you wont be able to recruit again at the bank you reneged on. However, the conflict here is that I had put the accounting internship on my resume that I used to apply for the investment bank. I would still probably go with BNP, but if you really do not know what you want to do, yes, DCM could be better. The risk of bad things happening is reduced if youre reneging on an offer in a different industry or from a significantly different firm (e.g. so under these circumstances, would reneging on my offer spell disaster or is it advisable, given the upside?? the situation but I wouldnt worry too much about it. Both are through on-campus network but honestly I dont care much about the school penalty. Id also get a ban from OCR. It would be very bad if I just email? If you want to do fixed income S&T in the long term, either one could work. So, this should only be a true concern if senior people (not analysts) got involved? Id appreciate your advice on this. Wall Street Oasis, a job-search site for financial careers, recently pinged readers for the hardest questions they were ever asked on an interview for Wall Street.The answers included such zingers as: I dont think it will even matter since theyll easily find out anyway. ). 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